December 13, 2007
Can the C3 scooter keep up with the BWs?
By Chris Anderson, service shop technician, Yamaha Motor Canada
It’s amazing how a preconceived notion – for example, that one thing is superior to another – can be shattered when one actually experiences it. The following is a case in point.
Twice in the past month, I’ve had to go downtown for appointments and deliveries. 
To save money, I like to sign out a scooter from my employer, Yamaha Motor Canada instead of taking my car. (In Toronto, scooters and bikes park for free at any meter, and in designated parking lots.)
My first trip downtown, I picked out the 2008 BWs scooter (aka the “BeeWee, right). It’s still a two-stroke unit, but this year it has a catalyzer built in to the exhaust to reduce emissions. It’s always been a favourite of mine because of…
- Performance: It’ll do almost 70 kph right out of the box.
- Cargo space: I can drop my full face helmet in the cargo under the seat, lock it and walk away.
- Fat tires: Perfect for negotiating streetcar tracks.
- Fun: You can’t ride this scooter without smiling!
My surprise came on my second trip downtown, which followed the same route as the BeeWee, but this time I chose the Yamaha 2008 XF50 scooter (right, also known as “C cubed” (C3). It’s new, still 50cc, but four-stroke, fuel-injected and liquid-cooled. It has the same fat tires and lots of cargo room, but I thought, “there’s no way it can keep up with the BeeWee!
Wrong.
What a rockin’ little beastie! The C3 generates the same smiles per km, but it tackles the big hills better than the two-stroke and for some reason, the C3 seat is more comfy than the Beewee, too.
The C3 never went below 53kph going up the same hills that slowed the BWs down to just under 50kph. (I know this sounds slow, but it’s rare to break 65 in downtown traffic.) I only found myself slower than the traffic flow twice, and I was usually able to pass dump trucks and buses no sweat.
Next trip downtown, I’m taking the “C cubed” scooter!
Chris
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I purchased a new Yamaha Vino 125cc scooter for my wife. It is to be used for every commute to the office. I am disappointed that the top end is 70KM. I have drived 50cc scooter that move better than my Vino 125cc. I hope once it breaks in that we can get at least 80-90km. Is there any performance items that can be added to help increase top end..
A stock Vino 125 with a 165 pound rider on a flat surface with no wind will go 80 to 83Kph, top speed will drop slightly going up hill or if the rider is heavier, or if there is a strong headwind.
hope this helps. … chris
January 23rd, 2008 at 9:37 amThe Vino 125 can be modified with aftermarket performance parts, HOWEVER….any modifications immediately void any warranty by Yamaha Motor Canada.
If the warranty period has expired and you still want to “soup it up” try http://www.importationsthibault.com.
If you chose to go this route, i would recommend “sensible mods” and stay away from High Performance stuff. The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long!
THIS IS MY 3 BWS HAD VINO 50CC AND 125CC BUT CAME BACK TO THE BWS I WEIGH 180 THIS LITTLE SCOOTER NEVER LETS ME DOWN, THANKS YAMAHA FOR NOT LETTING ME DOWN JIM ST.PETER
U R most welcome Jim, thanks for the nice comment
February 20th, 2008 at 8:20 pmI purchased a yamaha BWS scooter that a 2005 model. I want to get a new muffler because i heard if i put a new muffler i could get as much as an extra 20% of speed. Is this true? If it is true then i was wondering what kind of muffler I should buy and where to buy it? Thanks, Adam Smith
February 25th, 2008 at 1:10 amMy 2006 Vino 125, with 190 lbs aboard, with a windshield, will easily reach 85 kmph in ideal circumstances.
Thanks Bob, that’s exactly what it’s supposed to do! Don’t forget to change both your oils regularly (crankcase and gearcase) and keep a clean air filter.
March 17th, 2008 at 9:51 pmScooter on !!!
Chris
Good to hear! I’m looking at the C3 because of the cheaper price and I’m glad to hear it’s just as fun as the beewee!
May 9th, 2008 at 3:23 pmI just picked up the C3. It truly is a nice ride. I drove the Ruckus and the BWS and can concur with your observation of the hill climbing prowess. It definitely seems to produce a bit more torque up those hills and maintains speed just a bit better than the BWS. The Ruckus had no chance. I would like to squeeze a bit more “Under Warranty” performance out of it. Any tips?
Stephen,
June 30th, 2008 at 3:08 pmglad you like your C3 ! they sold all our demo units off so it’s been a while since I’ve been on one. As for the performance stuff, wait untill your warranty expires. But in the mean time….surf this…. http://www.importationsthibault.com/2007/accueil.php?langue=en.
The scooter catalogue is wicked. There’s not alot that is specific to the C3 (yet) but there are goodies there. if you’re looking for quicker take-off, look at the Malossi variator kits. I put one in my Bee-Wee and the pick-up from a dead stop was impressive. There’s alot to play with there, maybe join a scooter club, or buy your local scooter mechanic a coffee and pick his (or her) brain.
keep on scootering !!!
chris
[...] Although the engine wasn’t as peppy as the Yamaha BWS, it was noticeably quicker than the Honda Ruckus. The Yamaha BWS did seem to take off a bit quicker, but the Yamaha C3 seemed to produce more torque heading up in my quick hill test. Since I live in an area shaped like a bowl, hill climbing is important. The BWS gives up 0.4 ft/lb of torque to the C3, but hey, on a scooter, every little bit counts. The folks at the YAMAHA Canada blog seem to concur with me on this point during their test ride of the C3 in direct comparison with the BWS. [...]
June 30th, 2008 at 3:13 pmI bought a new ’07 C3 on may 7. 850 miles later I’m still convinced that it’s the best money I’ve ever spent. My Dealer ‘tuned’ it when they did my 600 mile maintenance.(you have to ask.) Also money well spent! Now it runs 47 mph, and gets 113 mpg. (up from 39 + 110) I guess I won’t have to upgrade to a vino 125 as soon as I thought! Gabe
Gabe, glad you like your C3! What exactly did your mechanic do ?? The metric conversion works out to 75 Kph. WOW !
(Hope you didn’t void your warranty…. or get a ticket !!!
thanks for the e-mail, eh.
July 12th, 2008 at 11:14 pmkeep on scootering !!
chris
There’s an 1/8″ thick washer behind the front pulley on the transmission. It limits top speed to 39 mph. (or so. )If your dealer removes it your warrenty isn’t voided. Plus, I don’t know yet how it’s going to affect the drive belt. (quicker or different wear patterns?) And I’m not taking my scoot to him saying,” look what I did……..!” No tickets yet! Gabe
July 16th, 2008 at 6:44 pmI’m going to buy a scooter and am agonizing over which to get… a 50cc BW or the 125 Vino. I’ll be using it for grocery runs 2 miles or so into town (also dirt roads a possibilty) The BW can be tricked out easily and seats 2 (unlike the C3) but the Vino seems to have the best highway speed. I’m 6ft 4in tall, have a full M1 and have loved riding scooters when on vacation so I knda know what to expect from one. Any advice?
July 30th, 2008 at 4:34 pmThe Vino 125cc will do 90kmh and sometimes just touching 100kmh on the flat with no wind! I have had both my Vinos loaded with heavy books which bring the weight up near 350+ with myself and the bike is still capable of doing 90kmh on the flat! Do not expect this bike to do this until it hits between 1200-2000 on the odometer! The BWS is a tough bike,We have one with 30.000kms on it,2nd piston cylinder,still running!
David,
August 9th, 2008 at 12:18 pmthanks for the feedback. I keep hearing stories like yours about these scooters “loosening-up” after they’ve been broken in. Glad to hear your workhorse is also a play horse! I can hardly wait until my BWs is broken in!
keep on scootering,
chris
Yammy has just released a fuel injected BeeWee 125. If you’ll go to torontomotorscooter.com there’s a thread in the Discussion section with several posts from membewrs who have ridden it and give riding impressions. Unless Yammy makes a 125cc C3 that’s probably my next scoot. Cheers! Gabe
August 12th, 2008 at 12:19 pmOOPS!! That was torontomotorscooterclub .com !!
August 12th, 2008 at 12:21 pmI’m thinking of buying my son a C3 but not sure if it can negotiate the hills where he lives (Eureka Springs, AR). Many of the hills are long and steep (40 degrees-ish) and are exhausting to even walk up without stopping to rest. He has no license due to poor vision, so that limits him to 50cc. Speed is not an issue, only hill-climbing ability without overheating. Any comments on the C3′s hill-climbing performance and longevity under such conditions?
Hey Mr Skydiver,
August 14th, 2008 at 3:21 pmThe C3 is most likely the perfect scooter for your son. It’s fuel injected so the performance is excellent, and it’s liquid cooled, so overheating is not a problem. As for the hills, I’ve negotiated some real ‘doozies’ here in Toronto, (we have a few valleys too), and the C3 climbs them better than any other scooter I’ve tried. It only dropped to around 50kph (30 mph) going up the worst one. My only worry for him would be going down the other side !!! Other 50cc Scooters I’ve tried recently, dropped to 35kph (21mph and no, it wasn’t a Yamaha) up a steep hill. The C3 has fat tires to soak up bumps and the drum brakes have a longer service life and work just as well as the discs for this application. Plus the fact that it’s a Yamaha, so you know it’s well built. Hope this helps !
keep on scootering !
chris
It helps very much, thank you. Going down the hills, he will have to take it slow; he has to anyway due to vision. The drum brake-life is a good thing there. I wonder though if there is an aftermarket larger rear pulley (and belt?) available. In his situation, the trade-off of torque for speed is well worth it (20 mph would be plenty).
Mr. Skydiver
August 14th, 2008 at 5:22 pmI don’t know of any pulley and belt combos that would work for you. Have you considered a throttle stop screw to adjust maximum throttle opening, thus reducing top speed? they do this for the small off road (dirt) bikes so kids can’t go full blast into the bushes. Other than that, maybe it’s better to err on the side of caution. I understand that a set of wheels is means freedom and independence, but i also believe in calculating risks. Ultimately, the decision is yours. The C3 is an excellent scooter and I’m sure you’ll both enjoy the heck out of it!!
chris
Mr.Skydiver, There’s a website devoted to the C3 scooter, C3rider.com that has a treasure trove of information about the scoot. I think you’ll be blessed by it. Gabe
August 16th, 2008 at 2:30 pmThanks gabe, I’ll check it out.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:17 pmI’ve now had my C3s transmission derestricted for 700 miles. No problems with the drive belt yet.This was the first C3 my dealer had turned up and they’re as interested as I am about potential problems down the road. At 1300 miles, what I Have noticed is that much of the pulling power I intially lost after the Mod has returned accompanied by a 2 mpg loss in economy. (down from a 113 mpg avg to around 111)
September 13th, 2008 at 8:13 amMy area is perfect 50cc commuting territory: Essentially flat with little congestion, and low average traffic speeds.
The C3 really appeals to me, but I’m 6’2″ and 240lb. Will it carry me safely, or do I need to upgrade to a Vino 125?
I’m not in a hurry to get where I’m going, and I don’t really want the extra cost or fuel consumption of a 125cc scooter, unless it’s absolutely necessary…
Steve,
September 15th, 2008 at 9:01 pmI’m approximately your size, 6 foot and 220lbs, and the C3 hauls me around no problem. If you’re ok with a stock 66 kph top speed, why would you need anything else? You can put a laptop and $40 bucks worth of groceries under the seat, and laugh all the way past the gas pump. Just remember it’s a solo scooter, so no passengers. ( a blessing if you ask me). Ask around, surf the web, those who own them, love them. Really !
keep on scootering !
Chris
Hey Steve! I’m 6′-235 lbs. And, like chris, have had no problems. As you read above-I had my Dealer derestrict my C3 and in the 780 mi since She’s sreadily run out to 48 mph and is averaging 110-112 mpg.(I run wide open 95 % of the time) or I’d probably get better mpg. However, For an even better reference, You can email a friend of mine (shockhalo@insightbb.com,) The shockster is 6′-5″ tall and has wasted away to 265 lbs trying to get his C3 to run stronger!He loves his as much as we love ours!! Gabe
September 18th, 2008 at 8:47 pmHere’s something else Steve, The ’09 scooters are soon to arrive at your Yamaha Dealer. If you can find an “Orphan” ’07 or ’08 model, And can afford to pay cash, The Dealer will make you a offer you’ll have a hard time refusing to get it out the door. Look for a Yammy Dealer with a shop that’s so busy you need to make an appointment and He’s your man!! . I got my ’07 C3 like that in May. (For $1685.00 base price!) Gabe
September 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pmMy 2005 Yamaha BWS with 9,300 kms has a miss and the dealer has done a number of changes such as an needle valve in the carb, solenoid for the automatic choke, battery, stater and CDI and the miss is still there. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem and found a solution?.
Conrad, this blog is not designed to offer mechanical diagnostics online (see terms of use), that said all we can determine is what is not causing the miss-fire relative to the parts you have changed. Clearly, your problem has not be diagnosed.
October 10th, 2008 at 12:40 pmIn trouble shooting a technician must first decide if the problem is electrical, mechanical or fuel related. Once that is determined they must drill into the system in more detail. These steps require experience and thought. Simply changing components without knowing what the problem is not a good way to go. You need to seek the help of an experienced dealership. We are here to help them if they cannot figure it out. cheers
Hey Conrad- There are several sites you can go to that have a lot of members that own scoots like yours.Try provoscooter.com – zumaforums.net – And the torontomotorscooterclub.com, which has a thread in their forums about maintenance that is presided over by a gent that’s shop foreman for Motoretta A scooter sales and service company in Toronto who’s got many years working on scoots and is really kindhearted about helping all of us! Hope this helps! Cheers! Gabe
October 17th, 2008 at 2:55 amHey Chris, I rode my C3 45 miles home from my Yamaha Dealer today after they’d replaced my stock variator with a Dr.Pulley unit, with Dr.Pulley 3gr slider weights installed in it. There was no difference from stock for the first 20 miles. Then as I was approaching the downhill side of the worst hill on my route,(a 3/4 mile 5% grade) My scoot suddenly surged forward.(I guess it took the sliders that long to wear in.) Stock, my scoot would quickly lose forwaed momentum on this steep hill, And hang onto 18-20 mph to the top. However, This time it slowed gradually,And halfway up the hill my little mill began to gain rpms until it was slowly going faster before it went over the top, Never going slower than 28mph.If I hadn’t seen it I wouldn’t have believed it! They also replaced my rear tire with a 140/90-10 which gives a higher overall gear ratio and fits in the space available without rubbing anywhere. Top speed increased from 42mph (with a derestricted variator) to 45.5-46 mph.No mpg figures yet but I expect it to be a bit better as my engine’s not working as hard all of the time now.The quoted figures were accomplished with a stock drive belt and variator torque spring.KS Power llc in Indianola, Iowa modified the Dr.Pulley Variator to fit my scooter,(and are the only shop that’s doing this right now.)The only part of my warrenties(regulsr + 3 yr extended) that it voided is the transmission.And you guys have been using the same platform for over 30 years- It’s as reliable as a claw hammer!To go any faster means an exhust system upgrade, 50 + mph is possible. Cheers! Gabe
February 13th, 2009 at 3:39 amI have to say you can’t trust the speedo,I put pirelli’s on front and back , bigger and with the derestriction and a gps for real speed it keeps hittin 60+ downhill…but it keeps reading 30-40′s,I gotta say fat meats and clean seats make even a scooter cool,and my mileage is 120 130…lose some weight
Hi John,
March 24th, 2009 at 9:34 amyes, weight and scooter performance are directly related, and, yes… I could stand to lose a few pounds.
As for speedo accuracy, don’t get me started. changing tire size can affect your reading, but really, at the end of the day, a speedo on a 50 cc scooter? It’s really just there to taunt you and give you sleepless nights. Unless you’re getting pulled over a lot for speeding, (ya, right) I wouldn’t worry about it.
Keep reading the other comments on this blog, Gabe is “the Man” for C3′s, check out his comments…
And keep on scootering !!!
Chris Anderson
John N. — you’re doing what speed on a C3? Is that 60+ kmh or mph? If mph, I’d love to honestly keep up with 45 mph traffic without sacrificing acceleration. Pickup leaves a little to be desired as it is. Otherwise, love the scooter. Kicks @$$ driving through Los Angeles traffic when only 3 cars get through a signal. I’m inspired by Gabe’s experience modding his. Will have to follow suit!
We Canadians like to measure speed in kilometers per hour. On a stock C3, our (Yamaha) radar shows approx 66 kph “on the flats” (41 mph) , with an average rider of approx 185 lbs or 84 kilos. Gabe certainly seems to have his “dialed in”, because he’s pushing 75 + kph, which is almost 45 mph. At this point, though, he’s now getting into expense and could see some longevity issues down the road. What I mean is, He’s had to tap into his 125 BWs fund to make the C3 faster, and ultimately risk over stressing his machine. Scooter tuning is fun and challenging, but understand the design limitations of each class and assess your needs accordingly. 50 cc scooters are perfect for daily urban assault. If you need to go faster, get a 125 Bws. It’ll go 100 kph with my fat @$$ on it. ( that’s 60 mph and I’m 220 lbs!), and it’s basically the same dimensions and storage capacity as it’s 50 cc brother. Sensible mods like Gabe’s Dr. Pulley and bigger tires may be all you need! Good luck and….
April 15th, 2009 at 7:11 pmkeep on scootering. chris
I have a 2007 yamaha c3. I am having trouble with it. After 5 mins of driving it over heats and shuts down and won’t restart until it is cooled down. I have taken it to 2 yamaha dealers and it still does the same thing? Can you give me any idea where the problem might lie? Can the engine vapor lock? Or could it possibly be an eletronic part over heating causing it to shut down? I am at my wits end trying to get it fixed and working…
Dear Uncle Moogie,
May 15th, 2009 at 12:18 amAttempting to diagnose your C3 by e-mail is kinda like calling your doctor on the ‘phone and saying ” it hurts when I do this”. Not that I’m comparing myself to a doctor, but you get what I mean. There’s a host of things to consider, and the whole diagnostic process should start with questions and answers about riding conditions, use, the actual issue and how it manifests itself. It could be anything from bad fuel, to a loose ground wire. The only way to do this is to leave it with your Dealer until they can test drive it, duplicate the problem (advising the dealer how to duplicate it is key), get to the root of the cause, make the repair, then finally retest the scooter to confirm the fix. Your Yamaha Dealer has access to service manuals, technical info, and expertise from product specialists that nobody else has. Dealers want to keep customers. You should return to the same dealer each time, not run around to different guys just because the issue is not fixed. They want you to be happy with their service and going to a different technician only makes it worse. Chris
Hi there,
I’m new to scooters, and am considering the C3 for a daily commute from downtown Toronto to the Yonge & Sheppard area. I’m about 6′, 200 lbs. Do you think this would be an appropriate choice? I read somewhere that the scooter’s weight capacity is only 170 lbs.
Many thanks.
The owners manual does state that the maximum weight capacity for the C3 is 187lbs. What I would recommend is the BWs125. You can check it out on our website. Below is the link that will take you there. I personally ride the BWs125 every day to work and love it. I am fairly close to your height and weight. The bike has tons of power which is really nice when commuting. I have been commuting to work on scooters now for three years and wouldn’t trade them in for anything. I live roughly 17km from work and spend approximately $4.50 a week on gas. Great bang for your buck. If you have any further questions please feel free to post them on our blog. Take care and good luck.
http://yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=2910&class=16&group=M|&LANG=en
Aaron (aka the BeeWee Man)
June 15th, 2009 at 8:38 pmMoogie has anyone figured it out yet? I have the same exact problem.
June 20th, 2009 at 11:29 pmHi Moogie and Kunzamik2002,
June 26th, 2009 at 9:13 amWe’ve had a look at our records and so far this appears to be the first we’ve heard of it. The key is to help your dealer understand how the problem shows itself, how long it takes and get them to experience the “shut down” for themselves. Also, similar sounding issues may not always be the same things, so give your technician as much info about the problem as you can. Please let me know what happens and what the final diagnosis was, you’ve got me curious.
I just bought my 50cc Yamaha scooter 3 months ago. Top speed was normal around 45km. It runs great .But recently it lost a lot of speed maxing out around 30km.I just got it check out .The spark plugs are good and the compression is fine. I was told maybe it could be the cylinder getting them cleaned could fix the problem.Any suggestions
August 12th, 2010 at 9:55 pmI just recently (today) bought a used 2007 C3 with less than 500 miles. I test rode it and it started up fine. After the 2 hour trip home on the back of a trailer in 99 degree weather it wouldn’t start. I called a local dealership and was informed the fuel pump on a small number of units swells when too hot and therefore cannot effectively supply gas for ignition. Apparently Yamaha knows this and picks up the tab at the dealership. Hope this helps.
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:47 pmI have an 07 C3 that i got new. The dealer tells me that I need to bring it in because it might be the electric choke that needs adjusting so that it will start when it is warm. Dealer says that they have never heard of this problem before. rob said on last post that dealer knows about this problem. any way for me to check myself and educate(kindly)the shop. I like the scooter, but am tired of it not starting after it warms up. it is to heavy to keep loading on my truck to bring back home.
The C3 is fuel injected. It has no electric choke. We are aware of some fuel pump issues due to the pump sitting for lengths of time (while in winter storage) in fuel containing ethanol. At the time of starting the engine when cold, during the point that you turn on the main switch, you will hear the pump working for about 3 seconds then it stops. Does it make this noise when you cannot start the bike? Yes? – not the pump. No? – replace the pump.
July 13th, 2011 at 9:40 pm